Netonix Forums

Is it possible to revert to a previous firmware revision, and if so, how?

I have an older switch, WS 12-250-DC, on my network on rev1.3.9 that has been plugging away just fine, but i want to get it up to date. However, when a took a switch on 1.4.9, and loaded the config to it, I had issues with ports not negotiating properly. On auto negotiate, I can only get 100M-H. So I reset the switch and then manually entered the config and ended up with the same results. When I plugged everything back into my original switch on 1.3.9, all worked as expected.

I would like to load 1.3.9 on a switch, load the config, and confirm it works properly, then upgrade, one revision at a time to 1.4.9 and test the functionality each step of the way.

It is a pretty simple config...

Port 1 AF24
Port 2 AF5x
Port 3 AF5x
Port 7 Rocket M2
Port 12 GigE line to from ISP.

The only device that will not negotiate properly on 1.4.9 is my GigE circuit. I have tried it on multiple ports.

I am telling you this (Ehernet negotiation) has NOTHING to do with the firmware version.

Negotiation has to do with the "switch core", we do NOT write the code for the switch core.

We write the UI/CLI and such which configures the switch core and keeps stats and talks to the DC power supply for stats.

The only config for a port speed/duplex is to set it to AUTO or a Fixed Speed/Duplex.

Running OLD firmware like v1.3.8 has security holes in it via the web service that runs our web UI which could result in malware infection.

Each time the switch does a reboot Ethernet communications are renegotiated. I would say it is more likely that it appears to be version but randomly your negotiation is occurring to make you think it is version related.

I would investigate the cabling, ends and possibly a bad Ethernet port in the radio.

If this is an AFX radio there are known issues with their Ethernet Jack not holding the cable in firmly resulting in link speed dropping to 100M. It has been discussed on this forum and all over the UBNT forum. We see this issue on AFX radios on my net.

Ports 1-3 are Aif Fibers and are functioning just fine on any revision. My issue is my port that I use to connect to my PtP over a GigE fiber circuit provided by my ISP. When I use my new switch on 1.4.9, it fails every time and on multiple ports. As soon as I go back to my old switch on 1.3.9 everything magically works.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that it is version related, am more concerned that something is happening to my config. I did a config backup from 1.3.9 and uploaded it to 1.4.9 after which I saw the issues, and therefore made an assumption that perhaps 1.3.9 - 1.4.9 was different enough that I couldn't just upload the config. My next step was to reset the switch with 1.4.9 and manually configure it, but I ran into the same results.

What I would like to do is start fresh on a switch with 1.3.9, load the config and confirm that it works. Then incrementally upgrade to the newest revision to see if that solves my issue. By no means do I want to stay on the old firmware, but until I work this out, I am stuck there.

I understand that I am grasping at straws, but I stumped and looking for guidance.

Thank you.

I think you can downgrade to v1.3.9, it will prevent you from doing the downgrade if it is not allowed.

My issue is my port that I use to connect to my PtP over a GigE fiber circuit provided by my ISP.

You mentioned FIBER, so are you talking about SFP ports involved?

If so:
Changed were made to how the SFP port were handled. With the newer firmware you have options for SFP port that you did not before on speed duplex.

YOu may need to try setting the SFP port to either 1G or AUTO to see what works best for the SFP modules.

Also sometimes you have to make sure that the other side of an SFP link is set the same so if set to 1G on switch set to 1G on on other side of link in that equipment, same for AUTO. Because when you set one side to AUTO or 1G it affects how it negotiates with the other side of the link.

If not:
And you are referring to the link to the radio that is a PTP link to where your fiber come in to what type of radio are we discussing?

I have a very similar issue - devices not wanting to negotiate gig that always have before - only difference 1.4.9 firmware. Is there a way to be able to downgrade??

jurwiller wrote:I have a very similar issue - devices not wanting to negotiate gig that always have before - only difference 1.4.9 firmware. Is there a way to be able to downgrade??

Current WS-12-250-DC models being shipped require v1.5.0rc3 which would have been installed on it from factory. This was required due to hardware change.

You can always try a firmware downgrade, if the switch tells you NO that means you can not, if it allows you to downgrade then your fine.

But I will say again NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING between any firmware version would have any effect on Ethernet negotiations but why trust me I only manufacturer them.

THE ONLY CASE that firmware could possibly affect Ethernet negotiations is with the SFP modules where we changed to the firmware at one point to allow people to choose between AUTO and 1G.

More than likely what you are seeing is because when you upgrade the switch does a warm reboot which drops Ethernet communications and then renegotiates and you bust be on the edge of Auto negotiation.

But hey just because I tell you people that the code that controls the switch port negotiations is code built into the switch core and we has not been modified since the beginning of Netonix pay no mind to us.

As I keep saying all we do is write the code that configures the core options that are built into it, you know, the UI/CLI, and some higher level Layer 2 protocols like Edge ring protection and that all basic and Layer 2 "standards" are built in pay no mind to me.

If you are using any Ethernet surge protectors TAKE THEM OUT. We have discussed many times on the forum that 99% of all WISP damage to equipment is GROUND CURRENT not ESD or surges and in the event of ESD or a surge the Ethernet surge protector functions by clamping all 8 wires together and to ESD drain wire (Earth ground) so you just created a dead short and will fry your switch port and or switch anyway. Ethernet surge protectors are OK to use with "active" POE 802.3af/at and with the factory supplied POE bricks as they can handle a dead short cable "passive" POE switches like ours and Ubiquities can not deal with a dead short on the cable as they all use Poly fuses which are too slow to detect the over current and will result in frying the Ethernet Transformer and or more depending on how the Transformer fries it could take out the switch SOC resulting in a DEAD SWITCH not just a dead port.

Another reason for EThernet negotiation issues can be noise on the line and or ground current from not bonding your tower ground rods to your electrical service ground rods and or poor electrical service ground rods.

99% of all WISP equipment damage is from ground current (I own a WISP)

Here are some good posts on grounding:
http://forum.netonix.com/viewtopic.php? ... 279#p19279
http://forum.netonix.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1816
http://forum.netonix.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=188
http://forum.netonix.com/viewtopic.php? ... =30#p13447
http://forum.netonix.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1429

Read the posts above but the basics are as follow:
Tower ground rods must be bonded to electrical service ground rods HEAVY #2 wire.
I always add 1 or 2 “new” ground rods to older existing electrical services.

We started repairing UBNT/MIMOSA and other equipment, read here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2827#p19482

And we see the EXACT same damage to that equipment which is from ground current. I think 9 out of 10 airFIBER radios we repair is the same damage to switches which is fried Ethernet Transformers and PHYs. Our switches have the PHY built into the SOC so if a PHY gets fried in a switch it is dead where as with the AF radios and MIMOSA radios since it is a single channel PHY it is a separate chip so we can replace just the PHY.

But hey if the switch will "allow" you to downgrade knock your socks off, it will tell you if your attempted downgrade is forbidden.

your attitude sucks ;) All I am doing is trying to figure out what changed, and guidance towards finding a resolution. this is not our first deployment, but it is our first deployment with issues. same equipment as we always do rinse-repeat. this is the first time we have had link issues. we have our electrician ground and bond everything to electrical ground. I will have them double check. Like I mentioned, we were surprised to "all of a sudden" have an issue with new deployments when all the others have gone so well. grasping at straws as to what is different. I don't seem to be the only one reporting this.

jurwiller wrote:your attitude sucks ;) All I am doing is trying to figure out what changed, and guidance towards finding a resolution. this is not our first deployment, but it is our first deployment with issues. same equipment as we always do rinse-repeat. this is the first time we have had link issues. we have our electrician ground and bond everything to electrical ground. I will have them double check. Like I mentioned, we were surprised to "all of a sudden" have an issue with new deployments when all the others have gone so well. grasping at straws as to what is different. I don't seem to be the only one reporting this.

Yea people sometimes think I am gruff, I get that, but just like you get tired of answering the same questions to WISP customers keeping in mind I also own a WISP and I know the stupid questions WISPs get over and over again and yea you really have to bite your tongue on a daily basis.

EXAMPLES OF A STUPID WISP TECH CALL:
Customer: Are you guys having issues?
Us: No why.
Customer: My internet is not working.
Us: I can see your link is up and I can see your router and I can see traffic on your link?
Customer: Yea that is my son who is watching a moving on HULU.
Us: So your son is on the internet watching HULU with no issues but you are having a problem wondering if we are down?
Customer: Yea, I have not been able to get my "new" iPad online since I got it.
Us: Is your older apple devices working OK?
Customer: Yea, my laptop, and iPhone are OK just my new iPad, can you look into what is wrong?

In your post you had already indicated you were having a similar issue as another guy which I assume you read his post and my answer that it is impossible for our firmware version to effect link speed.

And do not feel bad as you are 1 of about 6 people I have had this discussion with. Now you might say well if 6 people are complaining about this maybe there is something to it? Well like in the example WISP call above you "know" for a fact that the problem they are having is NOT yours just like I know this is not possibly an issue with firmware upgrades as we have not changed anything that could effect this.

Each time an Ethernet device drops a connection either from unplugging the cable or dropping the link it must renegotiate the link.

Now what I have seen many times in embedded devices like WISP radios that if the Ethernet link drops then renegotiates if there is border line issues with the communications the device will auto negotiate down to 100M.

You can test to see if it possibly the device by using the switch to power down the device then power it up and see what it negotiates at on a cold startup. Then try disabling EThernet communication but leaving the device powered up then re-enable communication which you can do on the Ports TAB with the far left checkbox.

If you find that most times it negotiates at 1G on a cold start but 100M on a re-negotiation you either have noise issue on cable or the device firmware on the radio does not like WARM re-negotiations.

As I also pointed out Ethernet Surge Suppressors cause people more harm than good and provide very little protection just issues.

Look I shoot straight, this is me, I just say it like it is, not trying to offend but I do get burned out answering the same questions and suggesting common sense standard IT diagnostic methods to people.

I have been a WISP for over 20 years and do my best to pass this knowledge on to people but I do sometimes wonder about peoples diagnostic skills.

So no offense intended and your probably right, my demeanor is on the grumpy side but I am trying to help and not let people think the issue is something that it simply can not be but rather is more likely a coincidence of the events that occured.

If you re-read my response I give as much information as possible, I offer some things to test and try and I am trying to dispel any myth that it has anything to do with firmware release for this particular issue.

I don't see any other post? certainly one I didn't create, but I did comment on someone else's??

Hey, I get it.. I have been in the ISP industry for 15 years, started at helpdesk and before this adventure, director of a global web hosting company for a while also. our "wisp" is not the typical wisp in regards to our collective knowledge base around here ;) However, instead of copying a rant from post-to-post, make a nice, informative post to sling around instead, makes you considerably more professional.

you have a great product, I simply was looking for answers. a simple "our firmware doesn't mess with the switch chip at all in regards to ethernet link unless its fiber" would have sufficed. I make it a point to not involve support from any of the companies equipment we work with because in 99% of the time if you know what your doing you don't need it. For the few times you think you got something fishy and you talk to support - you get interactions like this that get considerably off topic.

Thanks for the info, I will start to diagnose other aspects of the problem. the only reason I asked this was because I saw someone else with the same issue and thought we had something - apparently not.

jurwiller wrote:
I don't see any other post? certainly one I didn't create, but I did comment on someone else's??

I did not mean you created 2 threads, I meant you made 2 posts on the same subject. Yes you commented in another thread a user created then created another new thread with the same issue.

This is the thread you created:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3702#p23838

jurwiller wrote: Greetings,
I use WS-8-150-DC's in a micropop scenario that is fed by fiber, and powers 1 A5-14 at each pole location. I have deployed a couple towns this way with no issues (20+ some poles) and I am currently working on my 3rd town with 19 poles. this deployment is setup exactly like all the others, the only difference being firmware on both the A5-14 and the Netonix. I have certified my ~40ft cable run from the switch to the AP at 1G with a certification tester and after a while, the link between the switch and the A5 goes down. i hop into the switch, and change any link related aspect of the port - 1G/Full to Auto, or flow control on/off, etc. and the link immediately re-establishes and works for a while again. A single CRC is also counted on the switch when this happens. I have tried different firnware on the A5-14 with no avail, and would like to try downgrading the Netonix to the same firwmare in all our other locations (1.4.7 or 1.4.8) but when I try that I get "Error: Missing fisdir_m25q128"
how can I accomplish a downgrade?

This is the post in another users thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3632#p23836

jurwiller wrote: I have a very similar issue - devices not wanting to negotiate gig that always have before - only difference 1.4.9 firmware. Is there a way to be able to downgrade??

Please try all the things we discussed to narrow down what your seeing and let us know what you discover.

Would be nice if WISPs were given a crystal ball to go along with that Magic Ethernet cable with unlimited bandwidth that all our customers think we get when we become a WISP.