Switched VS Routed Backhaul

[adairw]

I already run MPLS/VPLS with OSPF routing.
All customer traffic gets bridged in via a VLAN at the sector and dropped on a tunnel and transported back to the core.
I also build layer 2 vpls tunnels across my network for customers to interconnect sites. This is what gout me to thinking about the switched back haul.
No reason to route a packet from one end of the network if it can be switched all the way through to the destination router.

I'm really more of a fan of routing everything and keeping it that way. but wondered if others had thoughts.

[rebelwireless]

Switched networks require 'tricks' when they get large. Yes, switched packets on hardware switches are very fast. I think you'll find that the saved nanoseconds for 20+ hops on a switched network don't add up to more than a 1-2ms vs an MPLS network.

Even a plain old routed network is going to be only very very slightly slower. Granted, you are only talking about your backbone network being switched so you wont have enough devices to need to employ any tricks, but the gains probably don't justify the added complexity in troubleshooting vs a routed network. Routed is just so simple to build and troubleshoot.

Anything but high end radios (the exalts, airfibers, etc) will add more latency in a single hop than you can save by switching vs routing.

so it's an interesting thing to think about, but I'm just not sure that reality supports this kind of config over a routed network that has so many advantages in maintenace.

[sirhc]

, an interesting "what if" but I do not think I would implement it.

If anything I want to move beyond OSPF with BFD to a better high level routing protocol I am just not sure what that would be yet.

Like that old 80's song I want a new protocol, one that doesn't come in a complicated mess.

[rebelwireless]

What's wrong with ospf and bfd?

[sirhc]

I want one that is easy like OSPF with BFD but has the features of OSPF v3 without the complexity

[adairw]

I don't think it's worth a network redesign to do it. I despise broadcast traffic in general and would want to be mindful of that when building a switched portion.
It was these damn WISPSwitches that got me to thinking about. Using them simply as a midspan PoE felt a little bit wasteful. ha :)
But they are not more expensive than a digitial loggers poe24 and have way more functions.

[rebelwireless]

Like i've said before, we need a brand new routing protocol specifically for the types of networks wISPs build. Fully aware of the entire network, each backhaul/sidehaul, available and max capacities on those backhauls, so that packets can be easily routed be network conditions and link characteristics.

Imagine having licensed backhauls side by side on unlicenced and the routing protocol automatically putting low latency and critical packets on the licensed link. No multiple routing tables, no stacking of VPLS tunnels, no VLANs just for QoS.
--pipedream.....

[sirhc]

Like i've said before, we need a brand new routing protocol specifically for the types of networks wISPs build. Fully aware of the entire network, each backhaul/sidehaul, available and max capacities on those backhauls, so that packets can be easily routed be network conditions and link characteristics.

Imagine having licensed backhauls side by side on unlicenced and the routing protocol automatically putting low latency and critical packets on the licensed link. No multiple routing tables, no stacking of VPLS tunnels, no VLANs just for QoS.
--pipedream.....

Well I promise to stay "focused" on the WISP industry alone!

So the more money we have to develop products be assured they will have WISPs needs in mind first and other industries as an after thought!

Like our WISP Switch, we took out 802.3af/t because it is designed for WISP Tower sites.

[jjonsson]

I would never go with a switched network. A routed network is so much better. Also too much traffic like broadcast etc. is sent on a switched network.

I'm running OSPF in my network. Like the ability to provide cost to a link. That way the preferred (primary) link is f.ex. AirFiber and backup link is NanoBridge/NaboBeam.
I have always 2 ways in/out of a site. Every site in my network can see 2 other sites. With OSPF traffic is routed if a link should fail.

What I need is VRF-lite implemented in the EdgeRouter, so that I can create several VLAN on top of the routed network, for instance a management network totally separated from customer network.

Anyway @sirhc when will the 8 port switch be available ?

[sirhc]

I have been sending out WS-8-250A engineering samples to BETA testers and production units should be available in limited quantities on the web store in 3-4 weeks.

Our 8/12/24 ports all just passed world regulatory certifications last week like FCC / IC / EU / EN and such

They all past the initial environment tests up to 55C but we are re-testing to increase operating temperature range up to 70C under load.

This week I have to create certifications page on web site and post test reports and CE Letter of Declaration for our worldwide distributors to begin sales in those countries.

We have accelerated the process on the 12 port + 2 SFP mini and hope to have it on the market in Q1

DC versions also on the market Q1

We have a lot more products planned for 2015 we just need some money to continue development and pre-production so if you like the direction we are going please support us and we will continue to listen to you guys.

There is nothing hard or magical about developing products it just takes a lot of money sadly.

It took us 10 months to bring the WS-12 and WS-24 to market but less than 6 months to bring the WS-8 and WS-12 mini to market.

Our goal is to be able to conceive, develop, and produce new products in under 6 months moving forward.

We have a few software kinks to work out yet for people and a few new features for the WS line but I think the response we have received by those that have the products have been pretty darn good?

We normally fix reported software issues within days or less.

All of you guys have my personal cell number for emergencies, I have always just gave it out and for the past 5 years people are very responsible and only use it when needed so I will continue to run this business this way with ANYONE being able to reach the top decision maker with a simple phone call.

People know where I live and operate my WISP and many of you have made the journey out here to visit me and we always have a nice "steak" dinner and a couple beers.

So we are a small company interested in making products for "WISPs" and we promise to always listen to your requests and get you involved before we make a product so you can request features or say do not build this and this is why!